Kris Roppelt [00:00:00]:
Intercultural communication is actually happening, even with the people who speak the same language, even with the people who are born in the same country. It's actually a question of perspective. And I very much like to use this metaphor of lenses. So once people put on those lenses and start seeing the world a little differently, so many communication issues turn out to be, let's say, highlighted in a different mode. And in the long run, there is this opportunity to communicate to people from all over the world, no matter if you are calling a tech support, which may be actually based somewhere in a different corner across the globe, or maybe you are playing online video games, and there is your pro player sitting somewhere thousands miles or kilometers away. So I think this is very important for all of us to keep in mind that even within one country, this is not really a question of whether you're a big corporation or you're an individual professional working on your own, but of course, also interconnected globally.

Matt Gjertsen [00:01:00]:
Hello, and welcome to the leadership Launchpad, where we help technical managers improve themselves, their teams, and their organizations. On this show, we talk with industry leaders, coaches, authors, and experts to give you actionable insights that can help improve your own performance and the performance of those around you. The workforce is more global than ever. Whether you are part of a company that is expanding globally or you are simply hiring a new person onto your team, there is a high likelihood that you will face intercultural challenges at some point in your career. That is why I wanted to talk to our guest today, Kris Roppelt. Chris is a globally recognized intercultural, communications and soft skills expertise. She has lived in the UK, US, South Africa, Australia, South Korea, and is now living and working in Denmark, where she helps companies and organizations worldwide to communicate and succeed globally. Kris is an entrepreneur passionate about connecting people of different backgrounds, whether it be languages, countries, or professional cultures.

Matt Gjertsen [00:02:10]:
During this conversation, you can expect to learn how Kris first learned of the impact cultural differences can have, the distinction between culture and personality differences, some of the most common cultural differences that cause problems in organizations, and the actions every manager can take to overcome some of these challenges. Before we get into the conversation, I do want to remind you to make sure you subscribe to the podcast. If this is your first time listening, and if you are already subscribed, then I would ask that you please share this show with at least one other person, because that, after all, is how we grow. I can't tell you how much it would mean to me. And so with that, let's get into the conversation with Chris Ropelt. Chris, welcome to the leadership launchpad how are you doing today?

Kris Roppelt [00:02:58]:
I'm doing fantastic. Super excited for our conversation. Matt, how about yourself?

Matt Gjertsen [00:03:03]:
I'm also doing great. It is 110 degrees outside fahrenheit, so it's a little. It's a little warm out right now, but we're making do. I'm so excited for this call led. You hosted an amazing session. This is how we met. We met a couple months ago. You were hosting a session from ice Springs.

Matt Gjertsen [00:03:22]:
Did such a wonderful job. We followed up afterwards, and I got to know a little bit about your backstory, just so everybody else can appreciate it, because I think I forget the exact numbers. Exactly how many countries have you lived and worked in?

Kris Roppelt [00:03:36]:
Well, I cannot say that I have lived and worked in all 63 countries that I've attended, but this is my count, so this is my map. 63 countries at my back. But I should say that maybe, like, some substantial experience I've had of living and working maybe in a dozen with, like, pretty long or pretty continuous projects. So with the rest, it's been short visits or some part time engagements or some touristic activities. But that's. That's quite a number.

Matt Gjertsen [00:04:07]:
That's a huge number. And it makes sense how you kind of wound up in your specialty of helping with these intercultural differences that organizations so often fall. Fall into. I was wondering if. I'd love to start with kind of how this all began for you, because it was a really interesting story of. Yeah. Of how you realized that this was kind of. Kind of be a thing that you were excited about and interested in.

Matt Gjertsen [00:04:32]:
So how did you get started in this field?

Kris Roppelt [00:04:36]:
Absolutely. It turned out that I was an exchange student in Seoul University of Foreign studies in South Korea, in the Republic of Korea. And on some very daily basis, I started noticing tiny little things that turned out to be quite major differences in terms of perception from both my korean language teachers and from my co fellow students who were in my group from all over the world, from China, from Germany, from Vietnam. And this was kind of adding up piece by piece by piece. And at that point of time, I understood that, wow, that really has made a big difference for a lot of people. This has been an issue for mutual understanding, or better to say, mutual misunderstanding. And since I was in the beginning of my career doing a lot of simultaneous interpretation, I was helping a lot of delegations when they were traveling abroad. I also started understanding that despite the quality of interpretation, sometimes there are other things in the air.

Kris Roppelt [00:05:41]:
As japanese proverbs says, you need to read the air. There are certain things in the air. The way how you structure your dialogue, the way how you greet people, the way how you do nonverbal communication, the way how you follow up or don't follow up, the way you place pauses or maybe remain silent. The way you hint over things or read between the lines. This all matters. And of course, the understanding doesn't always happen or come from the same language that we speak. So there is something bigger than that. I started understanding, and then my exploration began.

Kris Roppelt [00:06:14]:
I should say that maybe at the age of 21, I already understood that I really want to be doing this exact thing. Intercultural communication.

Matt Gjertsen [00:06:21]:
Yeah, that's awesome. And it's such an important topic for really, everybody, because I think a lot of times, at least the way we first talked about this and the way I've thought about this before has primarily been for really large organizations. Like you read about Netflix's book no rules. Rules has a whole section about them going global. The last company that I worked for was a company that was scaling globally. And so there was lots of these discussions that were happening. But I think today, especially more than probably at any time in history, it's something that every single manager in an organization can face, because even if you are in a company that's just a couple dozen people, you may be sourcing talent from all over the globe. And so all of a sudden, you have somebody on your team, and you think you're both speaking the same language.

Matt Gjertsen [00:07:16]:
But just because it's the same language doesn't mean the same meaning is being conveyed. I mean, to stick with kind of some of those early things that you noticed. Are there any stories or things that happen that kind of stick in your brain of miscommunications that you. That you remember from early on?

Kris Roppelt [00:07:37]:
Yeah, absolutely. But before we dive into those stories, let me just make a quick follow up on what you've just said, because I think this is a very important point for us to start with and for our listeners to also maybe relate to that. First off, it is truly important what you said about small and medium businesses actually entering the global market and scaling up at a different level, though, compared to Netflix and the other corporations, because, as a matter of fact, in so many situations, the global corporations suffer less from intercultural misunderstanding in their teams and with their contractors or vendors compared to smaller and medium businesses. The simple reason is those bigger corporations usually invest much heavier into corporate culture, which becomes an overarching culture. And also, they do invest so much into sourcing and recruiting talent according to very specific protocols when they really search for a cultural match with a new person in the company. So, as I mentioned earlier, it very happens, it very often happens that small and medium businesses actually need services of people like myself much more than bigger corporations. And then there is another little disclaimer that I wanted to make about even the individuals, even the experts, professionals, freelancers these days facing intercultural communication simply because there is this availability of the global market, there is this migration flow happening all over the world. And in the long run, there is this opportunity to communicate to people from all over the world.

Kris Roppelt [00:09:13]:
No matter if you are calling a tech support, which may be actually based somewhere in a different corner across the globe, or maybe you are playing online video games, and there is your, I don't know what you call that. Co player. Yeah, cochlear sitting somewhere thousands miles or kilometers away, no matter what measurement system you're using. So I think this is very important for all of us to keep in mind that even within one country, this is not really a question of whether you're a big corporation scaling globally, or you're a small professional, individual professional working on your own, but of course also interconnected globally. Intercultural communication is actually happening even with the people who speak the same language, even with the people who were born in the same country. It's actually a question of perspective. And I very much like to use this metaphor of lenses. So once people put on those lenses and start seeing the world a little differently, so many communication issues turn out to be, let's say, highlighted in a different mode.

Matt Gjertsen [00:10:15]:
I love that idea of lenses, and I love that idea of. Yeah, it's not just a matter of where you were born, it's much more of an outlook on life, a way of viewing things, a filter through which you're kind of viewing the world. That can be very different. I mean, yeah, I mean, especially here in the states, I think on LinkedIn, one point, we had a little back and forth, I think it was you and I, where like, the United States can feel like five or six different countries, you know, because there are such different cultures, cultures around, that I think that makes. Makes a ton of sense. And so it makes sense of needing to put on. To put on those glasses, to put on those different lenses, to see those different things and kind of build that, build that empathy. So, yeah, so then let's get into some examples of ways that you've seen, and we could start, we could do very low end of low stakes situations that you saw while you were still a student, all the way to.

Matt Gjertsen [00:11:15]:
I'd love to hear of true examples of, like, how this can impact organizations, because I'm sure you have a couple of those.

Kris Roppelt [00:11:25]:
Absolutely, absolutely. Let me begin with one of the stories that ended well, and there was not really a big consequence to that, but that's my personal story, one of the situations that I faced when I worked in the US in California. And I think this is going to be very relatable to many of our listeners. And for the first part of the story, it may not even be clear for them. Why is that actually something intercultural? You know, it's like a fish in the water. Until you're taken out of the water, you don't really feel how warm or cold, salty or fresh the water is. Same story here. So let me give you a description of that.

Kris Roppelt [00:12:05]:
Back in the days, I was working for an educational organization, and in that organization, I was mostly supporting one of the professors who needed to organize a trip for their team. And I was in charge of booking an airplane ticket for the team members. And unfortunately, there were no other available tickets for that specific evening when the team members were supposed to fly. I think it was to Washington that we were needing to book a ticket. And considering the schedule that I've had at my hands, I understood that in order for us to catch the necessary flight, the team members would need to finish their class something like five minutes earlier, ten minutes earlier than necessary. And so we would just need to let the teenagers who were part of the educational group, we would need to let them go a little earlier, and then the team members would be able to catch the flight. So that was my very, in my opinion, back in the days, sensible decision to make, considering there were no other flights available. And I had this task to make sure the team members actually arrived to Washington.

Kris Roppelt [00:13:16]:
In the end of the day, what happened was that I had a huge conflict, I would say even conflict, because this was extremely emotional with my boss, because, unfortunately, as it turned out, since it was a very quick decision to be made, they could not warn the parents of those students who were 15 and 16. They had to finish the class earlier and leave the building earlier, five to ten minutes earlier. So they had to wait for their parents to pick them up on the cars and had to wait alone. And then there came the issue of kidnapping. There came the issue of the parents not being informed in advance about their kids staying on their own. Even though California seemed like a pretty safe state and a pretty safe area, it was in a Bay area. The boss was extremely mad at me. And for the first ten or 15 minutes of the conversation.

Kris Roppelt [00:14:09]:
I couldn't even understand what the issue was because. Exactly. Well, it was she. But never mind. It doesn't matter at all. That doesn't matter at all. The idea is that I, from my background, clearly understood that there is literally no issue with 1516 year old kids waiting outside for their parents for five to ten minutes unattended. And the teacher could really just compensate for that five to ten minutes next class while I was actually later comparing the stats.

Kris Roppelt [00:14:43]:
And I understood that it's true, the american society is extremely concerned about the safety of their teenage kids, even though back in my area, the place where I was born, the crime rate is much higher. But most of teenage kids of this age are taking their trips by public transport, walking home alone again, because it's not such a car heavy society, because the teenagers have much more independence, et cetera, et cetera. So it seems like a very obvious situation, but the very fact that you are not a part of that water, you are not a fish in that exact same pond, makes your decision change. And it was a pretty traumatic experience for me back in the days, and that's what made me double check all the stats and also fears and concerns and values of the society that I start working with, especially if I'm planning to move to a new country for some quite long time.

Matt Gjertsen [00:15:45]:
Yeah, absolutely. And it just. It's such a great example of how just the numbers aren't enough, you know? Cause like you said, there's, you know, if you look at the numbers statistically, it was much safer here in the states than what you were used to. But for whatever reason, that wasn't the driving factor. There's a whole discussion to be had about why it's not the driving factor. But that's not the discussion for today. But the point is, is that it is about going that next step of understanding the mindset of folks and not being able to assume any of that mindset. But yeah, I think that's a really.

Matt Gjertsen [00:16:21]:
That's the perfect example of just how minute things can be of not seeing the water for what it is.

Kris Roppelt [00:16:30]:
Absolutely. And the fact is, again, every part of that, every participant of that story, we're having good intentions. Yes, we were all trying to do our best to make sure that the job is done. And I do want to make another disclaimer. And the issue of intercultural. The issues of intercultural communication is always about disclaimers, so bear with me, please. The first disclaimer is, of course, I'm sure among our listeners we would have a lot of opinions saying, well, I live in Bay Area and I never had an issue with that. It would be totally fine with me, which is absolutely possible.

Kris Roppelt [00:17:05]:
And I recognize that. And of course I would also, I'm sure we would also see a lot of voices and opinions that would say, oh, it's just a personal issue with that particular leader was that particular boss who was overly concerned about legal consequences of kids being left unattended, contrary to the agreement with an educational institution. And again, I recognize that, however, cultural stats usually gives us a chance to estimate average temperature in the water. And this is what I was not sensitive to back in the days.

Matt Gjertsen [00:17:37]:
Yeah, yeah. There's always going to be fluctuations from person to person. And over time, as a team, you need to understand that because I'm assuming that's another thing that's important about those lenses, is you never fully know until you meet the actual individual person. You have some idea of how you want to adjust. Let's say you're bringing a new person onto your team from a particular part of the world, and you say, I think this is generally it, but you still need to get that individual's take on everything.

Kris Roppelt [00:18:09]:
Absolutely. And what is more, I think it is very important for all of us to understand that no matter how hard we try, no matter how many books we read in advance, no matter how many stats and resources we check and how much practice we gain, there are still going to be situations when we all fail interculturally. And that's okay. As long as you have good intentions and as long as if you're able to talk about them, as long as you're able to adapt and change again, not giving up on your identity. Your identity. Your identity. Your identity. Your identity.

Kris Roppelt [00:18:40]:
Your identity. Your identity. Identity to your counterpart. I think that is a very important point. And another important thing is I've just completed a fantastic course for professional intercultural communicators in Germany with a professor from the Netherlands whose book is titled cultures don't meet, people do. And I find this as a fantastic phrase. That's true. However much we learn about specific countries, specific stats, specific situations, we always deal with a person in front of us.

Kris Roppelt [00:19:14]:
Of course, it's different to the situations when we need to explore a new market and find a marketing strategy, adapt to the values and the needs of a specific type of a consumer. But when we're talking to a specific person in our specific team, there is always a personality rather than a simple embodiment or a copy of a national culture.

Matt Gjertsen [00:19:34]:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So it always comes down to the individual. But I'm guessing there's still. Are there some common themes? Like what are some of the common mistakes that get made in organizations of where this cultural miscommunication happens? Are there some common things that you see a lot?

Kris Roppelt [00:19:55]:
Absolutely. And I should probably say that among the most painful points where people do not find good alignment, we would probably rank feedback culture. You probably are aware of the fact that even though the american culture is generally considered to be pretty straightforward, and sometimes too straightforward for some other cultures, when it comes to feedback, this sandwich rule is an overly dominant concept. And we do recognize that compared to some cultures, the us culture is actually pretty soft when it comes to providing feedback. Whilst if we take the Netherlands, for example, or Israel, we would see a pretty blunt and direct manner of providing communication. And what is more interesting to me, there is another aspect to that feedback provision. To the majority of us all over the world, there is this consensus that feedback, especially negative feedback, should preferably be provided on a one on one basis. However, there are cultures, such as, for instance, Germany, or here in Denmark, where we can notice that in many companies, negative feedback may be provided in public, within a team.

Kris Roppelt [00:21:10]:
And it's totally okay because this is considered to be the learning background for the whole team. It is not taken personally if it's provided correctly and respectfully, but at the same time, there is no concept of losing face like we have it in Japan, China or Korea. So this would be taken relatively easily, I should say, compared to what we are used to in the US. And again, those points are very, very relative to you specifically, Matt, some feedback might sound pretty okay and neutral and gentle, but for your counterpart in India, that would be the end of life. That would be something that they find extremely humiliating, even if you say that on a one on one session.

Matt Gjertsen [00:21:53]:
Yeah, I mean, and that's something that. I mean, I think that's one of the primary points that came out of the Netflix's book, too. And talking about going overseas and how. I think the story that was told was of a manager trying to get feedback, not even give feedback, but get feedback. And I forget. I think she was in Japan. I think that's where the story was coming from. And saying how, to your point, like it was next to impossible to get them to give her upward, critical feedback, that it was just so the antithesis of the culture that she.

Matt Gjertsen [00:22:28]:
It was months and months of working with an individual on her team before she felt comfortable giving critical upward feedback. When the Netflix culture is kind of like, you know, it sounds very Denmark or German, you know, and that it's just like, no, that's the whole point. We need to. We need to bring this up. We need to give critical feedback to one another.

Kris Roppelt [00:22:49]:
And again, the intention behind both of those approaches is very, very positive. The intention is to ensure there is progress in the organization. The question is what we see under progress, critical acclimations, or keeping harmony in the team so that it can flourish and prosper and give good results on the next circle of. On the next cycle of the production. Right. So I would say that, yeah, feedback is probably among those most popular topics where this discomfort comes in. And apart from that, I would probably list probably something that is not very evident and obvious, but that becomes a hindering point for so many of us, which is informal communication and the patterns of informal contact for colleagues, if we're talking teams here. So what I mean is, in so many situations, this overarching corporate culture in this big international corporation says something that helps us.

Kris Roppelt [00:23:47]:
It guides us. How we communicate with clients, with peers, with leaders, how we provide feedback, how we collect feedback, how we follow deadlines. Or maybe we're a little bit more loose on that, how we make decisions, consensus based or top down. But then when the work is over, everybody has their own expectations and they can be different. I'll give you an example here. Here in Denmark, I had a client who came from eastern Europe, and he, very shortly after, he joined a big international, but a danish company here, he had a birthday and came home with a tiny little certificate for something like, correct me if I'm wrong, for something like $20 or something to a local mall. And he was so disappointed and so sad, really complaining to me later, saying that back in my motherland, if somebody has a birthday and the team is positive about this person, is kind of. Is feeling something nice towards this person, they would actually collect some good amount of money and give them a gift or maybe even welcome them to a restaurant or something like that.

Kris Roppelt [00:25:03]:
The person, in turn, would offer something sweet or even pay drinks or pay the meal. Well, there will be some reciprocity in this thing. There will be some mutual exchange of, let's call that gifts or donations. Right? Whilst here in danish culture, it is very much, well, individual centered and work centered. So you have family to celebrate your birthday with, right? Not your team members. And this was such a shock to them. Like, do they not like me?

Matt Gjertsen [00:25:33]:
Interesting.

Kris Roppelt [00:25:34]:
What is that? A hint towards me not being positively seen? Am I not welcomed in this team. What does that mean? So I tried to calm them down. Explain. That doesn't mean anything, especially considering that you've just joined the team. They didn't have a chance to get to know you better because the cycle of making buddies here in Scandinavia is much longer compared to so many parts across the world. People are much more reluctant to creating connections and bonds. So this is just a perfect example of when you are in the team and everything works fine, you don't really recognize those differences. But once you step out of this work zone, suddenly you understand that, wow, here is something I didn't expect.

Kris Roppelt [00:26:19]:
Why don't people want to go to have a coffee or go to a bar with me? Why do they not welcome me to their home? While back in my country, I always visited my colleagues places. I was actually friends with my colleagues. What's wrong with that? So I just recently had an egyptian client who came to one of the post soviet countries, and he clearly mentioned to me that one of the goals and objectives of our intercultural work would be to help him become friends with his team, which is a pretty ridiculous concept for so many countries across the world. Why would you want to be friends with yourself?

Matt Gjertsen [00:26:54]:
There's a separation. It's like work life, personal life.

Kris Roppelt [00:26:57]:
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So again, this boundary, I think it is very important. So you should never underestimate how you feel a little bit beyond your workspace.

Matt Gjertsen [00:27:09]:
Yeah. And so I just love kind of wrapping all that together of, you never know what it's going to be. It's those little daily interactions of. Yeah. Do you, do you get birthday gifts? Do you go out for drinks? Do you invite people over to your house? All that stuff, that informal stuff makes, makes so much sense. So let's, I'm sure there's lots of things that an organization can do or needs to do to get prepared or to do this properly. But kind of, as you said, a lot of times, the larger the organization, the more they invest in this, the more they prepare. So if we're talking from an individual manager's perspective.

Matt Gjertsen [00:27:47]:
Right? So I'm a manager. I'm either, you know, I'm about to get somebody on my team from another part of the country or another part of the world or just a different culture, or maybe, I don't know, maybe this is good. There's probably good practices. Anytime you get somebody new to your, to your organization, what are some things that a manager can do to make sure they don't fall into any of these intercultural traps?

Kris Roppelt [00:28:13]:
I think that's a great question and a very practical one. I love it, Matt. And I should say that I will be happy to leave a link to a research that proves, at least suggests with the stats that they provide, that contextual diversity within teams actually leads to better creativity and amazing results. So whenever you're hiring someone new from a different culture, that'd be a different corporate culture, different ethnic culture, different religious culture, different national culture, different generational culture, there is always this diversity increase in your team and so you have higher chances to prosper in terms of your creativity. So I think that is important. Again, as a short disclaimer, before I give you some tips, I think the first thing that a manager would probably benefit from is to appreciate their own boldness and courage to take on board somebody different from who they are or their own team. So to appreciate the fact that, wow, I've actually done a good job, that's probably not going to be easy, but kudos to me. That's great that we've made this decision to onboard someone who is a little different.

Matt Gjertsen [00:29:25]:
I do want to, if I could jump in there because I do think this is such an important point because, yeah, as you say, like the statistics really do bear this out and it'd be great if you could provide the link to that, to that research because, yes, it makes sense why people would want their lives to be easier. And so always like that just make you want people who are going to agree with your ideas, who are going to hold the same norm. So it makes sense that people would just instinctually kind of like hire people who generally have a similar background to them in. And as you said, you can slice that in a thousand different ways and their life will probably be easier, but the outcomes won't be better, you know, and so I think that's the key thing of why this is so important and why managers should take this on is because, yes, it is a more difficult proposition. It is more work that you're going to have to get through, but the end result is going to be better for your team and for your organization. And so recognizing that that is a thing that you are embarking on and celebrating it, I think is an important point to make.

Kris Roppelt [00:30:42]:
Yeah. To be fair, though, for routine tasks and for the teams that perform routine operations, that's actually counterproductive because you need this time to co create new norms and new routines in your team. If you are introducing someone very diverse. But for the teams that are engaged in creative activity, creating something new, innovating, this is so crucial so, yeah, answering this question, first of all, appreciating that and celebrating that. Second is, I think it is extremely, extremely important to not fall into one of the two polarities. One polarity being, oh, my God, this is a different culture. They, you name it, Japanese, Indian, Americans, Canadians, Croatians, do it all differently. And you're literally starting to freeze at the point of, oh, my God, where things can go wrong.

Kris Roppelt [00:31:42]:
I can tell you anywhere. They can go wrong anywhere. And this is something that's pretty paralyzing for many people. Being scared of making something wrong, being scared of not thinking of something, being scared of not researching enough in advance before onboarding a new person. So this is quite a non productive polarity. Another non productive polarity is the reductionism is saying, oh, we're all, oh, come on, don't they want to achieve good results? Don't they want to be a good teammate? Don't they want to contribute to our team? That's pretty obvious. We all need this, this and that. We all need to be appreciated.

Kris Roppelt [00:32:23]:
We all want to hear some feedback. Well, probably on the one hand, yes, that's true, but on the one hand, the way we do things is incredibly diverse. And again, I encourage you, even if you have never been working internationally, look at the people around you. Even within a single nation team, you still see a huge diversity in the way people approach different, even most basic routine tasks. What could happen with the people of a different background? Of course that would be different. And then on top of that, you add, for some cases, language barriers, or even when people speak the same language, some nuances can be very, very particular. And even if you, again, take English, British English, Canadian English, Maltese English, Nigerian English will be different. So what I think a good manager or a.

Kris Roppelt [00:33:13]:
That's a probably bad labeling, good manager, a thoughtful manager, and a conscious manager should do is try to not fall into one of those two polarities. There's never all about culture, and it's never all about just personality. So it's always somewhere in between. And probably the most wise approach is to try to navigate between the two, never falling into one of those polarities.

Matt Gjertsen [00:33:37]:
I like it.

Kris Roppelt [00:33:38]:
And I don't know if you want to comment on that or should we move on to the next point?

Matt Gjertsen [00:33:43]:
No, I think. I think that's. I think you put that really well of. Yeah, it's just keeping. Keeping out of those two traps is a good. Is a good first step. What? Yeah. So what's.

Matt Gjertsen [00:33:52]:
What's the next one?

Kris Roppelt [00:33:54]:
Oh, well, I've got a whole big checklist for you. We'll limit ourselves to just one more point, and then we'll see if maybe you want to follow up on that. I think the great idea is to kind of just sit down together and before you observe some tension, or before, hopefully there will be tension. But if there is, before you observe some tension, or before you observe some challenges and difficulties, it is a great opportunity for you to practice some conscious team building and some conscious team shaping. I should say just have a sit or maybe stand up and do some activities together. Those are multiple different opportunities. You should not necessarily hire an intercultural trainer like myself. It is very possible that you do things on your own.

Kris Roppelt [00:34:38]:
Just search through some of the materials, and I can suggest some exercises to you as well by trying to sit down and understanding where we are actually similar and where we're different, and asking questions that might seem very, very simple to you actually turn out to be fantastically insightful. So let me just give you an example. There was the situation between a german colleague of mine and an indian colleague of mine where I suggested that they sit down and discuss the questions of deadlines. And of course, it seems like a very stereotypical conversation, but I was just trying to pull a good illustrative example to you. So when you ask someone, when should a report be submitted? If the deadline is 03:00 p.m. usually you might hear again in your corporate culture, it might be by 03:00 p.m. but as it turns out, for a german person, it was strictly before 03:00 p.m. so maybe 255 or 250.

Kris Roppelt [00:35:45]:
But for an indian person, in that specific case that I'm describing, the answer was by the end of the day because 03:00 p.m. is already closer to the end of the business day. So, yeah, most likely nobody is going to read this report or message by next morning. So I usually have all the time until six, five, seven, no matter when the company finishes its work or the specific department does it. So it seems like a very, very self evident thing, but in itself, it turns out to be revealing a lot of interesting insights. And I think in this place, it's the absolute right of a manager to both consider the reasons why each of the participants, each of the team members, considers this or that position to be right, but also to suggest establishing a norm and explaining why in this particular team or in this particular organization, this specific approach is what we value and this is what thing we expect. So I really don't. I really hope that none of the team members or managers who listen to us would automatically assume that, oh, well, we should all just try to adapt to each other and maybe find a consensus so that the new deadline would be like 430 or something like that.

Kris Roppelt [00:37:02]:
Well, no, if your organization has specific requests about specific procedures, routines and rituals, that's totally okay to at least suggest them and see where the frustration or disagreement may come from. You know, this fantastic exercise of asking five whys may get a lot for you at this point of time.

Matt Gjertsen [00:37:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's because it's so important to establish those norms, whether it's for an entire company or for an individual team. And then, yeah, I can't agree with you more about the importance for managers of just kind of getting to know one another and talking about some of these differences. That's why one of the first things that we teach, so, you know, whenever we teach leadership, we talk about these three pillars of building trust, giving feedback and setting goals. And when it comes to building trust, it is just as simple as connect as people instead of coworkers and just ask, what did you do this weekend? You know, what, what kind of books do you like to read? Just, you know, you can start super simply and then kind of as that trust builds, you can build the more complex topics. But I thought that was such a great example of what does a deadline mean? I mean, talk about an example of not seeing the water you're swimming in, because that is a question that people are never going to think to ask. But you're right.

Matt Gjertsen [00:38:24]:
I've, even in companies that I've worked at, you know, in the military, the term is always early is on time and on time is late. Right. Like that's, that's like the, the way they, they talk about it. So depending on your background. Yeah. It's going to completely change. Completely change what? Where people are going to, are going to land on what they think is the appropriate way to behave. Well, Kris, I want to.

Matt Gjertsen [00:38:48]:
I want to be respectful of your time. This has been a fantastic conversation so far. We're definitely, it sounds like we got a couple resources we're going to link to down below. Where should people find you? If people want to connect with you, what's the best way to connect with you?

Kris Roppelt [00:39:03]:
Thank you for suggesting that LinkedIn is probably the best way to get in touch with me. I'll be super happy. And I try to post a lot of free materials, my own materials, the materials of my colleagues, some of the adjusted, complex theories that I try to turn into simple language because I do feel that the world needs more digestible knowledge on that because for many of us it seems like, oh my God, this is so complex and so difficult. Something for the diplomats, right? But I do advocate for intercultural awareness being the new literacy of the 21st century because we all live in a globalized world, no matter how scaring some political news might be. It's the process that has been kick started and it's really hard to revert it back. And I personally am very happy that we are learning more and more about each other because there is an opportunity to improve and there is rarely something very right or very wrong about parents, how different people live. It's just again a question of the context of the waters they were raised in and or maybe where they spent a lot of their time in life. And this is again the question of perspective taking, seeing the world through different persons lenses or maybe creating your own new lenses.

Kris Roppelt [00:40:19]:
So yeah, LinkedIn is the place for my materials. Also, there is a website where you can research a little bit more about my cases and my work. And yeah, of course, always there for you. If you want to get in touch with me, there is a calendly link. You can book a tiny little call and yeah, just check out if maybe I can be of help for you.

Matt Gjertsen [00:40:40]:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for this conversation. I think hope people got a lot out of it. So have a great rest of your day.

Kris Roppelt [00:40:48]:
Thank you Matt. And thank you very much for listening to our podcast. I'm looking forward to helping you and wish you the most intercultural day possible.

Matt Gjertsen [00:40:55]:
Awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to today's show. If you are looking for help turning your organization's great engineers into great managers, me and my team at better everyday studios would love to help. We deliver targeted and interactive training workshops that are designed to help build the three fundamental skills of any new manager, building trust, giving feedback, and setting goals. Reach out to me through matt@bettereverydaystudios.com so we can start making your organization better every day.